Thanks for the shoutout! I've been more of a lurker tbh for about a year or so, with a few posts on the boards. Great community you have here though!

First off, you need to do some complete runs of MGS2, 3, and 4! Do yourself a favor. Some of the best storylines in gaming, despite some "over the top-ness". They are all pretty short games too, you could probably beat each in a 7 to 10 days.

As for this week's question....its certaintly an interesting one. To be honest, I think we are witnessing the end of the desktop interface BECAUSE we are seeing a decline of desktop computers. I'm trying to not turn this into a debate of "are desktop pcs dying", but portability is the key ingredient of the current era, and is setting the current trends in software as well.

Since smartphones and tablets are growing much quicker in popularity than desktops, interfaces that seem more in touch with these newer pieces of technology are going to crop up more. And I'm not surprised that companies are trying these new interfaces on "older" technology (its somewhat strange that desktop PCs are now getting to be labeled as old) to see how the consumer responds.

Personally, im not a huge fan of changing desktop interfaces to be more like xbox live's and iphones, but I guess i'll try it. I do agree on your assessment that microsoft should be spending more time on tweaking windows 7 though.

One more thing....UNC football? Aren't you guys supposed to be more interested in sports around March? I kid i kid....I'm glad its football season too after how depressing the Pittsburgh Pirates season ended.

Well, im pretty fine with the desktop set up, but it looks like the rest of the world is going to abandon it pretty soon, although whatever's gonna replace it (ie: iPhone interface, XBox interface) it's probably gonna have the same basic idea behind it.

By the way Commadore, if you're lookin for a good remake of Metal Gear: Solid, check out MGS: the Twin Snakes for Gamecube.

as to your question on the death of the standard desktop interface i respond with the niche market that kicked off the computer revolution, at the begining of the decade, the internet was in it's infant stages and the computer was somewhat of a huge calculator, it's main purpose was to to practical functions and it's implimentation as a video game device but the computer market has exploded since, with the bevy of social interaction that the internet provided. The thing is that I belive that it's not so much of the evolution of the pc concept in windows 8, but really the creation of a completely new space in computing which is move of the use of computers as a "social" hub even with advanced applications like weather and gps, the new operating system stands as the implementation of the more external side of things, but if you look at things like that in general the simplicity of either a desktop or even a basic file system is a more practical and orginiseable system, it may seem outdated, but it wasn't designed to help you find that picture or video you just took or downlaoded, it was made so that you can easilly associate files with a specific function. In reality, on most portable devices people use very few programs, mainly because they aren't attempting do do much more than check the time, watch a video and make a tweet.  It's a diffrent school of thought, but one I still find relevant even in today.

The desktoping environment exists with possible hundreds of files or programs  ready to be initiated, it's a simple design biult not for the users who see a computer as that aforementioned hub of communication, but a pallet of tools to shape bits in a file structure. it's designed for manipulation- not construction or consumption of information. 

if you're lookin for a good remake of Metal Gear: Solid, check out MGS: the Twin Snakes for Gamecube.

I think the term "good" is debatale. It's highly over the top, as compared to how nuanced MGS was.

Also Commodore, you said you were going to discuss the nomenclature of MGS. ADDENDUM, I say. That is our battle cry for the week.

Thanks for the birthday shout out. It was on the 11th. I turned 28.

As for the death of the desktop interface, no. It's still here and will continue to stay. Why? Because the desktop interface has existed long before the PC in the form of the heads up display. The military has been using it for decades. Then the computer industry picked up on it. Games still use it.

Heck, even Star Trek uses the interface. Sure, you can argue that it's because of our own limited experience with that interface in television production, but the desktop interface is tried and true. It isn't going anywhere.

Maybe there's something I'm missing here, but I'm not sure I entirely see desktops 'dying'. Keep in mind things like smart phones do essentially have desktops still. I have a Droid and it basically still has what I would call a desktop. It doesn't work entirely the same way, because it's a touch pad and there's no mouse, but you can put icons on it and it just really looks like a smaller desktop, with wallpaper even.

I guess a question I have is what do you call this type of area on a PS3 or 360? Is it just the 'menu'? Doesn't it do the same kind of thing, but a little differently than a desktop? As far as whether that will be rid of in the next generation of consoles, or something, I have no honest idea.

Again, I must be missing something here. I'm not sure.

Anyway, I agree with DTX; play all the way through other MGS games, Commodore! I especially love MGS3. I think I honestly liked it better, as a gameplay experience, than the first MGS. Seriously. I really had that much fun with it! I have to warn you though; the MGS series does...start to go...'out there'. It's like....Kojima wanted to start to turn the series into The X-Files, or something, I'll say that much (not because there are aliens. Don't worry about that, there are none. :P)...MGS2 is not well-liked by a lot of fans for....many reasons, and it's far from my favorite. But I say give it a shot anyway; you'll need it if you want to play MGS4 anyway.

I also agree, if you haven't already, try The Twin Snakes; I think the gameplay is also improved there because it uses the MGS2 engine. It makes a big difference! What I don't like as much about TTS is some of the lines were slightly changed for....no real reason I can see or know of, and some of the deliveries aren't as good. The music is also different, but some of it is just re-arranged. It's not really 'bad' music, but doesn't really replace the classic tunes you remember. Also, Psycho Mantis's mind-reading is changed to name off Nintendo games, and Eternal Darkness ( Konami....really had almost nothing on the 'Cube, actually...). Overall, if you liked the original PS game, you should still like TTS.

MGS2 is not well-liked by a lot of fans for....many reasons, and it's far from my favorite. But I say give it a shot anyway; you'll need it if you want to play MGS4 anyway.

MGS2 is obviously the most polarizing of the main 4 (5+ if you count the psp games). But I actually think its either my favorite or tied with MGS1 for my favorite. Other than some codec conversations with a certain character everytime you saved the game, i enjoyed all the character interaction.

To further comment on the wringer, I don't think desktops are gonna be done and not sold a few years down the road, but I do feel they are slowly becoming the "2nd banana" in terms of what companies are developing software for, OSs included.

I've never been into Sports so Football season is the tiem i useualy go into hidding to avoid the jerk jocks. 

As for this weeks Wringer I dont think so.  I mean technically the Desktop , in my opinion at least, is the central hub of your OS where all...or at least a good portion of your stuff is shown, or at least acsessable from.  Yeah it may change, but much like the main hub in a Platformer game, or a level select screen, it's still very much used for the same purpose, as a place for us to start on our computer thats, supposed to be, Easy to access and navigate around once we get past the login/Start Screen.  

I don't know, could be the fact that Im ignorant in the matters, or I could just have a very unusual way of seeing things, but thst's just the way I think for what ever reason.

Thanks for backing me up on the TM / GTA thing Commodore. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. I do have to diasgree with one point though:

I don't know that I'd call FFVII Nobuo's Opus. Most of the earlier games have had the music performed in a full symphonic style. If you take away the technology and base it on the composition. I'd be more inclined to say 6 or 4. (specifically keeping within FF at least).

Onto this week. 

It's hard to say, and I think i'm going to cheap out a bit on this one and say Yes.... and No.

Are we seeing the death of the desktop? Absolutely, for average day to day users and uses. In any kind of a Professional or "Power user" sense of the word though, absolutely not.  The simple structure of a desktop, in my opinion, lends itself the best for organization and multitasking / productivity. 

Similarily, what I also see is people moving to is a co-existing habitat. PC with a Desktop at home acting as media/file server to your non desktop Pads and Consoles.

Interesting question.  I don't know if we are currently seeing the death of the desktop.  Yes, there are many devices that are currently using a different interface for the user to interact with.  I personally think that these sorts of interfaces are very suitble for handheld/portable devices (iPads, Android tablets, etc.).  They work well for what they are ment to accomplish; quickly being able to access information on the go in an intuitive and comfortable way (touch the thing you want to use/open/start/click/what have you).  I don't think this an appropriate interface to replace a "desktop" ala a desktop PC.  We've seen these sorts of devices already, the HP touchscreen desktops come to mind.  While a novel concept, there really arn't any "100% touchscreen only desktops," rather, the interface mimicking say iPads supplement the tradition PC desktop experience.  I think a reason for this, is that the concept of the desktop works so well, that it's difficult to improve upon.  While I'm sure these kinds of computers are applicable in some situations, for the typical home, office, or gamming machine, the desktop functions perfectly fine.  I would argue that trying to mimic an iPad interface on a desktop is uncomfortable compared to a traditional desktop (try spending 8 hours at work sitting in a chair holding your arm up at a right angle touching the screen of your computer, or hunched over it trying to type on it).

That being said, I think the way we interact with our desktops is changing (and I'm talking about the keyboard and mouse here).  I saw an article a while back that talked about a company that essentually added a large touch pad to the keyboard.  The user would interact with desktop by using gestures in a similar way that you would use gestures on an iPad.  Think Minority Report, only with your hands in your lap.  Voice command technology has been around for a long time, and may be used to replace a keyboard and mouse altogether.  When thinking about the future of interacting with computers, the sky is the limit.  Perhaps in the near future, all personal computing is done in a cloud based system that you access from a portable device or a terminal in your house.  Maybe your PC is built into your house, connecting all your devices together.  Your television may have a PC built into it that you interact with using an iPad-like device.  The technology for these kinds of applications already exsists.

It's a tough question to think about.  I think there will always be place for a "desktop," but the way you interact with it will change.  That being said, computing as a whole may change so drastically in the next 10-15 years that it will be unrecognizable from today.

On an unrelated note, I don't like the feel of windows 8 (granted I don't know a tremendous amount about it yet).  For the reasons I mentioned above, I don't think that sort of interface works well for a desktop.  If they put it on a Microsoft tablet, I think it'd work very well.  To have it reaplce my desktop in my office and at work, I doubt it.

My favorite Metal Gear game was Snake Eater. It took everything that was amazing about James Bond, took out the convoluted Patriots storyline and packaged it perfectly in the Metal Gear universe. Not saying MGS was bad, just that Snake Eater was better.

Maybe part of it has to do with the fact that my minor is in history, and my specialization is in the Cold War. The 60s was just a bad ass time for diplomacy (followed closely by the 80s).

As for FF7 being Uematsu's "magnum opus," I have to disagree. I have a CD released in 1992; a symphonic suite from both Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy II. With seven acts, including the classic bridge march and the crystals theme, that music will go down as some of the best video game music of all time. I had to import it from Hong Kong just to get it.

While I still love Aerith's theme and the world map music from FF7, it simply cannot beat some of Uematsu's earlier work. The entire album of Celtic Moon and a handful of motifs from FF6 are far superior.

One, Really, Tar Heels? WTH man, I thought we were cool. Need some Orange and White (Clemson) in that room. Don't think we can be friends anymore.

As for this week, I'm going to have to go with Shiro and other commenters on the board, I don't think Desktops are dying... I just think they are getting a new name. Dashboard, Interface, etc, all the same stuff, with just shinier menus. Clouds will eventually replace the hub type interface, but even then, you are still dealing with a desktop in a new iteration.

Not to kick a dead horse or anything, but yes, sadly the PC age is dying. While I think its going to be around for awhile yet, the tablet and smart phone are going to surpass it and eventually kill its dominant market share.

Speaking of which, USA Today just had an article about Microsoft's Windows, bleeding out money. Windows 8, is essentially being rushed in order to stimulate sales and cover up some of the leaks. This probably won't be the last of its kind of this sort of thing happening. Essentially trying to milk every last dollar out of a market that is going to eventually flounder. (You know, kinda like the Tar Heels).

So I don't think the "desktop" is necessarily ever going to die... I just think we refer to it as will.

PS: You spelled witnessing wrong. Must be that Raliegh thing.

I don't usually chime in this early, but Predmon got me cold on this one. I did indeed misspell witnessing.

Now, have your hardy har hars about it being a "Raleigh" thing, but in reality it's a "I'm up way too late on a Sunday night before work, wrestling with this new version of Premiere before I spend 10 hours rendering this video" thing.

Nicely played my Clemsonian brother. I can't promise it'll happen fast... but I'll fix and re-render eventually. Because that's how much I care about being professional and how much I care about you. After saying that, I feel way too much like Ray Zalinsky from Tommy Boy.

Apologies everyone, a momentary lapse of reason by yours truly.

I wouldn't have mentioned it if it weren't for the Tar Heels jersey. We still cool though... At least until October 22nd.

I am SEC all the way. Always have been. I grew up in Oxford (Hotty Toddy) and I spent five years of college in Tuscaloosa (Rammer Jammer). But those ACC boys play some damned fine football. I've always preferred UNC and FSU in that conference.

Sorry @ Auburn's undefeated streak. But ah, what a great game. Still a huge USC fan, but Clemson still has my heart. Which you know is kinda sad, since I went to school in Charleston. You'd think I'd be a Citadel or CoC fan. Nah.

As I see it, the desktop interface will never die as long as there are millions of desk jockeys like me working 40 hours a week with various Windows-based programs. It's convenient, effective, easy, and in use by businesses large and small all over the world. This type of interface may see a decrease from the point of the casual or recreational computer user (ie users not at work) but I think it's too ubiquitous in the business world to go away any time soon.

Example: I have worked for a large international pharma company for the past several years. Based on this experience and in dealing with our partner companies, it seems that large corporate entities don't like to make IT changes if they don't absolutely have to. I'm sure a lot of other businesses are similar. We currently use XP Pro, we just this year upgraded from Office 2003 to Office 2007, and (believe it or not) we are still using IE6!! (It's a wonder I can actually check CotGW from work!)

BTW, DTX180 is right, along with Mr. K... You've got to make some time for the rest of the MGS series, especially Snake Eater!

Sorry @ Auburn's undefeated streak.

Why? I'm not. I was cheering for Clemson the entire game.

Firstly you pronounced it right, it is in a French pronunciation, it was a randomly generated name for my first Everquest character, and it has stuck since.

As for the desktop, I wouldn't say it is dead, I think there will simply be a split, those who use the computers for casual use will of course continue to want simpler more user friendly machines. Those of us on the other hand who like the customization, and are a bit old school (I still love DOS) will continue to want a desktop where we can easily organize many different programs we want to use. I keep all my games and apps I frequently use on my desktop, be it a rooting folder, guides, work for school (still in college), or just general programs I want easily accessible. I can't do an Xbox type screen, which works fine if I am playing games, but not so well if I am trying to find a piece of research I have to read for a term paper.

I think the switch in Windows 8 is leading us to an age where computing will be style over substance, people want their internet, and their Netflix or whatever else quickly accessible, but they don't need to do research, or have spreadsheets organized by date. This is where the vast majority of users are coming from, but I think manufacturers of computer software and operating systems know it is dangerous to alienate any customer base. This is one of the reasons that windows is coming out with windows 8, it has a reputation for alienating the groups that Steve Jobs grabbed by making a really user friendly interface. I don't think they will alienate those who stuck with them all this time through thick and thin, because they wanted a truly deep operating system.

In conclusion I think the desktop will be pushed back, but not disappear, because it would serve to alienate a group of users which would then simply leave for Linux, or just not upgrade. New operating system will be designed with both the casual, and hardcore in mind.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SOOOO much for the Xenogears mention Commodore. I didn't chime in last week, if I had I would have put FFVII at the top of my list with Xenogears on my wishlist, It is the perfect Mecha RPG in my opinion.

This week's question? No.

I think there will always be a version of the "Desk Top". My main reasoning is customization. A PC isn't a PC without the P. I don't like that phone interfaces lack trash cans and are arranged in fairly stiff immobile ways despite the expanded functionality many now enjoy. I like my wall-papers which I change at least once a month or on holidays. I like arranging my icons and managing things. People like to hold the reigns and Desk tops or skins of some sort will be in fashion long after they've left practicality.

those who use the computers for casual use will of course continue to want simpler more user friendly machines.

Quote from the package of Windows 7 "Your PC, simplified. We designed Windows 7 to be more reliable, more responsive, and to make the things you do every day easier." The thing is I find it is hard to navigate and find settings (I still haven't found how to clear the recent documents), and looking at Windows 8 it looks like it will be even harder to find the setting you want. I personally find Windows 95 to be more user friendly.

Those of us on the other hand who like the customization, and are a bit old school (I still love DOS)

If it wasn't for the internet my primary computer would be MS-DOS 6.22 followed by Windows 95.

Yeah, I'm gonna say no to this simply because of how big our hard drive space is getting. Yeah, those other methods may work for mobile devices, but those devices don't have the same amount of memory to sift through that our PC's do. I've got a mobile android tablet-like device and the setup works well for what it can do. It may even be arguable that it works better than a desktop setup would for the amount of things that can be put on it.

Now imagine trying to find something that you put on it long ago but never use anymore when you've got over 5 TB of memory used up. I don't want to have to sift through 9 billion different programs just to find the one I want to use at the moment just because I didn't put it on my home screen and can't remember exactly where I put it.

Things may change in the future once the idea has been played around with enough, but at this point and time the desktop method works best for PC and it will be at least a few years before my mind is changed.

I think we are in the minority, most people would be frustrated by MS-DOS and Windows 95 although to a lesser extent. As a child with little computer knowledge, getting the illegal operation message was horifying to say the least, especially with no recourse. Was it reliable and stable yes, but I don't see people going back that way. But you did bring up an interesting point, the internet is the driving force for modern OS structures. New operating system are aiming at making internet management easier not general computing.

'Frustrated by Windows 95' Warning pops up wanting the CD to be put back into the drive and the screen looks like the Blue Screen of Death.

Yeah, I would simply love to chime in, but I have nothing unique to say on the issue. It seems most replies are "I like the old stuff." "It is better as a Desktop because of organiztion or larger memory" "Hard to hide porn on my phone" "They're all the same, those are just more simple to market to the casual audience." Allright, I may have made one of those up.

I haven't seen the Windows 8 thingie yet, but I do feel it is too soon to move on, I am currently in love with Windows 7 and hate going on Vista at my school. I don't need to move forward and then go to my father's house and get frustrated at how annoying Windows 7 is. From what it sounds like if it is similar to Xbox 360 interface, then they are probably trying to get it to work with a controller. This way Microsoft could market it as a console and a PC, and not make a new Xbox console, but Microsoft PC/Console thingies. I'm sure we'll still be able to go through our files in specific paths made by ourselves for ourselves, but I would love to just keep a desktop. Whatever happens, I don't care about the interface, they wouldn't possibly market a flawed creation and we will still be able to use all our old shit. If not, I'll just stick to Windows 7, no sweat.

And the real reason I posted other than to point out how boring I am and how I lack a unique opinion worthy of the actual three paragraphs (The first is my thoughts on the topic, and the last are my thoughts on my post).

*HUGS!*

For the first second of thinking about it, I thought tabs would be a cool idea for Windows. I think Linux was doing something like this... eons ago. However, the more I thought about it, the more worthless the idea seemed. Why scroll to a games or documents or music tab when you can just have a folder for them?

After looking at Windows 8, I've gone from wanting it because it can play XBox360 games, to never wanting to ever sully my computer with that. It looks totally stock and standardized (and thus easier to hack, right? LOL Let's have our stock information with credit card numbers and everything all loaded up onto a single, easy-to-access location), the biggest waste of system resources I've seen in Windows yet (movies running and images with scaling and alpha blending just as the background and file previews), and frankly it is putting up barriers between the user and the computer. I know the file manager is still there, which is the heart and soul of a computer, but what if I want to put a link to Cave Story on my "desktop?" Can I do that, or does it have to be a "Microsoft-approved" program or some such trash to be on there.

Really, I don't know how much to hate yet. Maybe I've exaggerated all the points I have made. If this is just a replacement for the desktop, it's not a huge sin. Probably many people will have their credit card numbers stolen if they choose to go through standard "shop," "stocks," etc. channels, but if it's only the desktop that is being replaced, I won't cry. A desktop is really just a file folder with a lot of shortcuts and not many files that is always present.

This way Microsoft could market it as a console and a PC, and not make a new Xbox console, but Microsoft PC/Console thingies.

This would be the worst thing they could ever do from a marketing standpoint. They don't actually manufacture PC's so they wouldn't see most of the money. They also wouldn't get console gamers, because you can already hook up your controller to your pc.

I litterally think a move like this would bankrupt microsoft in a heat beat.

It seems most replies are "I like the old stuff." "It is better as a Desktop because of organiztion or larger memory" "Hard to hide porn on my phone" "They're all the same, those are just more simple to market to the casual audience."

-- Ninto55

LMFAO. So true...  I was mostly only reading comments because so many had be humorious until this one.  Most of us aren't really qualified to give an answer.  Knightcrawler was the first one that mentioned some of the structure of an interface.  I am know that i am a horrible example of the typical PC user becuase i have been playing with GUIs since i first started using a computer.  I ran without explorer.exe (the shell) on XP when it first came out, becuase i was on a 266MHz computer, and Starcraft ran better without the shell.  I use a terminal to start minecraft and use Total Commander (like Norton Commander) for a file manager.

No one should be worried about "being able to find stuff".  You can't underestimate the performance curve.  You can always find anything you want by searching for it.  The speed of THE search is becoming so fast, you can't think of what you want to search for any faster.  The same goes for settings.  If you don't know how to do something "(I still haven't found how to clear the recent documents)" then GOOGLE IT.  If you can phrase a question, then you can search for it.  That being said, the desktop is for multi-tasking.   There may be different shells, and different organizational schemes (think Mac OSX vs Windows), but for multi-tasking, the desktop will never die. 

The desktop may be on a popularity lull.  But he won't go away, he'll still be here for all of us that will use him.  And he will always welcome back any who have strayed from him.  Oh Desktop, i will always love you!

 If you don't know how to do something "(I still haven't found how to clear the recent documents)" then GOOGLE IT.

Two things:

(1.) I have found how to clean them in previous versions of Windows myself and should not have to go online to find out how to do it.

(2.) I have 'Googled it' and the answers I get are how to disable recent document or how to navigate to C:\Users\(User Name)\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Recent Items and manually delete them.

Yeah... well real quick I agree, Microsoft is pushing out OSs too fast. I had XP on my last desktop, Vista on my last laptop, and 7 on my current computer. And 7 is far from finished, they'd do well to finish tweaking 7 but I guess it's easier to just pay for a repackaging campaign then actually fix your product. Shame too, 7's actually starting to get usable. 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

That having been said, yeah they really are making Desktops pointless. I mean you have the file menu, then you have shortcuts on the desktop to make finding programs you use often more accessible. But now with 7 you can have shortcuts on your taskbar, there's no point in desktop shortcuts. I only see mine when I turn the computer on. Shame too, I like my wallpapers. But yeah, the desktop as we know it is on the way out. It's basically gonna turn into a splash page with widgets, flip to it to see the local weather and baseball scores, then back to your porn. Hell the Mac OS replaced the desktop shortcuts with that little bar along the bottom long ago, Windows is just catching up.

And yeah I didn't have a chance to reply to last wringer but I agree FF7 for most important PS game. That's not to say it's the best but in terms of what it's contributed it's a major milestone for sure. I think you should have also mentioned DDR and PaRappa the Rapper for their contributions to rythem and music games.