...I first have to point out the typo in this post's title; it says 'Rigtone.' >D

Well, firstly, Nintendo doesn't seem to have a future in mobile gaming exactly, because they refuse to be a part of it. They don't want to develop for phones, or otherwise platforms that are not their own, and that makes sense to me.  The heart of Nintendo has always been within itself, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you?  They don't need to make anything for other companies, anyway. What's funny about this is that later this past summer, a report came out that said some investors were actually angry that Nintendo won't make games for Apple products. Seriously. I like how GamePolitics put it; "That would be like Microsoft investors telling it that it should develop Halo games for the PlayStation 3 or Wii..."

As far as what Nintendo can or should do to try and fight mobile competition, the thing is, I always thought of mobile games as a different kind of beast than handheld gaming, so I'm not sure how to really address this....If mobile games are indeed direct competition for Nintendo, well, one thing they probably need is have a better handheld with better marketing. The 3DS has not done great since it launched earlier this year. A huge part of it seems to be because people simply do not care that much about the 3D, and don't feel the 3D really improves gameplay (a survey done recently helps illustrate that). Nintendo also didn't seem to market the 3DS that well, as reportedly a lot of people somehow still didn't understand that you don't need glasses to use the 3D. Ouch. I still have a hard time understanding how that can be.

Nintendo is the king of actual handheld game units though, and everyone knows them by this classic reputation. The 3DS may not be doing well, but reportedly it's 'better' than it was earlier. The price drop helped, I'm sure, and more games people actually want are being released. However, like I said, what Nintendo should think about doing, if they're not already, is make a different kind of handheld and market it better, and/or improve on the 3DS, and market that better. They, of course, need third-party support as well, and have to continue to convince developers they still need them on board. The 3DS was probably another difficult sell for Nintendo, but they have to keep pushing for it; it's their only hope if they want to keep the 3DS moving for a long time. Otherwise....it's back to the drawing board, if they're not already at the drawing board. As far as what Nintendo would possibly do for another handheld, I'd never bother to even try to guess. The thing about Nintendo is you never know what they're going to do; they're hard to predict! I say, just enjoy the ride!

In regards to Sony handling mobile competition, well, Sony does have the XperiaPlay (formerly known before its official announcement as 'the Playstation Phone') so they're already in the mobile market. Evidently though, people are...not really using the Xperia to play games. The phone is reportedly 'selling well,' though I haven't found any numbers. I don't really hear much about the Xperia, and haven't heard of anyone who actually owns one, so its presence seems to be very quiet and probably not too widespread. If people aren't using it to play games though, well then I'd say Sony isn't going to get much farther than this in the mobile market. Could that change? Well, sure, it's possible, but Sony would need to really do something different to make people want to buy their phone. The problem may be that Sony isn't known for phones and mobile gaming; they're known for the Playstations and other electronics. True, Apple wasn't either before the iPhone, but Apple now has the advantage, and probably will for a very long time, because the iPhone was such a game-changer (er, no pun intended, I ppromise!). Droid also made a huge splash, and Apple is not pleased to have the competition. Can Sony also climb that ladder and become fierce competition with these two giants? Again, it's possible, but I don't see it happening, at least, for a long time. Sony doesn't think like Apple, clearly, so trying to match wits with them isn't going to be easy. Also, it sounds like Sony probably doesn't want to focus as much on their possible mobile market as much as they do on their actual game consoles and handhelds; they seem to handle that better.

The PSV has yet to debut as Sony's next handheld, and honestly, I'm not sure how that will go. A recent survey in Japan indicated that honestly, most gamers there really don't care about the PSV. Not right now anyway; I suppose that may change with time as more games are released. It seems the PSV is going to also suffer from a lackluster launch, with a lot of games that are already out on other platforms, or games that really haven't been explained as to what they are yet. I really think it's just way too early to call on how the PSV will do, but so far, right before the unit is even released in its homeland...it doesn't sound good for Sony!

I'm really not a good predicter of trends/technology, but so far, I can't see much in the mobile market past Apple and Droid so far. Nintendo is downright out, becuase they don't want to develop for devices not their own. They may be the king of handhelds, but they need to do better with their current new unit, and/or just....start over and do it better next time with an all-new device, which is...probably not going to happen soon, given how financially unwell Nintendo is. Sony's mobile presence exists, but isn't very big, and doesn't seem to be getting much bigger. It sounds like people buying the Xperia are probably doing so to use it as an actual phone, which...sounds shocking, I know! These...things are phones?? :O Sony doesn't seem as focused on their mobile gaming platform, even though it also uses Android, as they are on the other things they do.  Sony has bought Ericsson, so this could change, but so far, it doesn't seem too likely that Sony will go much farther with actual mobile games.

I guess I have a question of my own, Commodore (and anyone else commenting, of course!); have we thus reached a stalemate in mobile games, where not much new is going to forseeably happen? Yes, Apple and Motorola will still make new versions of their hardware and software, but what really is going to be truly different about this market for the forseeable future? I guess that's sort of the question you already asked, Commodore, so it seems I.....have failed to come up with an answer! Or rather, I guess my answer seems to be, 'stalemate!'

First, for those who might be interested >.> Here's my ring tone (kind of)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6jCJZEFIto&t=039

Starts at 0:39 and is ~20 second loop.

Onto this weeks wringer though!

Alright so here's the way I see things going, and the Sony Vita is already starting to peek into it. First I think it goes without saying that WiFi / #G networking will have to eventually be incorporated. The way that I see them (or Sony at least) going, is cloudbased mobile gaming. Very much like Steam. For Sony it'd be tied to your PSN account. log in over your G network, and all the games you've purchased are available. 

I do see Nintendo going this way as well, when you consider the Wii Shop and Virtual Console. Which I think will not be overlooked in a future handheld model. Nintendo has to take into account one major thing. As family friendly as their image is. I've no doubt that a large part of their revenue stream is still coming from NES - Gamecube era titles. Jeeze I mean seriously think of it: a Hand held that could be: NES, SNES, N64, Game Cube, and every version of Gameboy to date. With your complete library (which many would rebuy) in one spot, can I get a "NOW YOU'RE PLAYING WITH POWER!" Seriously!

I think Sony will eventually include support for flash / java / and the more traditional mobile game support. (if they can fanagle some kind of iDeal) Infact I see Sony possibly going the route of: "Oh, and it's also a phone" rather than "this phone is also a handheld" (if that makes sense to anyone). Nintendo though, I doubt they'll ever move outside their proprietary bubble. However, if they went the route I described above, i don't think that it would matter.

hey you know what would be super awesome? if you put an mp3 of the weekly wringer up with the post each week. i would love to listen to these podcast style at work. 

keep up the good work!

I think you have to seperate hardcore and casual again for this argument, like the desktop argument.

I have a droid, but when i play games on it i use a wiimote to do so, because touch controls for gaming seem clunky. also I have to say that there is't much depth to the games out with a few exceptions. It is a lot of casual gamers playing on the train ride and such, but you can't get a zelda experience in the marketplace. I would dare to say that the people who game on their phones are not the gamers that would buy a nintendo ds, or vita. So while the consoles control less of the market, I would be willing to bet unit numbers are close.

Pricing is a key aspect of this, if you paid 200 dollars for your smart phone why would you buy a 3ds for another 200?

So nintendo and sony have a future, but not in the market where cell phones are trying to take us, they target the gamer who wants a deep rich experience... and children who don't have smartphones (thankfully).

For the ring tone thing, I actually was gonna reply. So I tried to figure out how to set the ring tone on my cell phone and it required me to send an MP3 to my phone's E-mail address, which I am pretty sure would have meant agreeing to additional monthly fees. So I didn't. Why couldn't I just transfer files through the USB cable? I'm sure Android can, but I clearly don't have an Android. I guess that might have been a decent answer - that cell phone companies try to monetize even "homebrew" ring tones - but I guess I didn't think to post or thought I'd try to get a ring tone later by seeing if there was another, less known, way.

As for the current question, everyone knows that TRANSFARRING is the way of the future!!!

>.> j/k No, the answer is two-fold. Firstly, Nintendo and Sony don't HAVE to react to mobile gaming. It's more TOTAL money in the industry, which doesn't necessarily mean there's less money going to them (although in reality they probably have lost some casual gamers, but they can be replaced by new casual gamers attracted by new first-party casual games). Nintendo will always have its fans to rely on, and those fans are a larger audience than most typically think of. Sure there are are fans that love Fire Emblem, Super Smash Bros., or The Legend of Zelda, but there exists a larger fanbase that loved anything Mario and to a lesser degree Kirby. You'd be surprised how many copies of Legendary Starfy were sold this the later bunch, too. Somehow, despite not having cartoon shows and cereal, Mario has managed to still be king amongst children, and true gamers know that almost all Mario games are anywhere between great and astounding. Sony has some popular series of their own, but it's really unknown how popular they'll be in 5+ years.

It's also important to note for the first answer that true gamers will prefer to play on devices suited to the games being played on them. Sure Street Fighter *exists* on the iPhone, but it's pretty bad when compared to the 3DS version. It's simply because the 3DS version has better graphics, it's that the controls are very well suited to Street Fighter. Same reason why playing Capcom vs. SNK II EO was a total pain on GameCube compared to the PS2. An iPhone or iPad is designed to be pretty, not practical for gaming. All handhelds designed by Nintendo and Sony (excluding the Virtual Boy, of course) are designed from the ground-up to be good for gaming.

We have also yet to see if any truly astounding games can be born out of downloadable games. One positive aspect of these downloadable games is it often gets back to the days of the early arcade. But when will mobile gaming get its Shantae, Etrian Odyssey, Golden Sun, or Pokemon? Angry Birds is more like a Pac-Man. Why is it less likely for truly great games to appear on these devices? Because it requires a larger dedicated team than simple mobile games. This means either a somewhat large publisher which will be gambling if it decides to commit a "hardcore game" to a casual device, or a very devoted team that is more likely to want to publish to DSiWare or something because the game would be better played on a dedicated device. The only reason a dedicated team might decide to focus on iPhone or iPad is if it saw untapped potential there, or if the current handheld devices weren't powerful enough for their game.

The second answer is a bit more important. Screw Sony, this answer doesn't really apply to them. For the mobile market, video games have evolved to fill an existing niche. For Nintendo's handheld market, Nintendo evolves the niche themself to expand the video games. Control methods, feedback methods, design methods: Nintendo has evolved it all over the years. While some mobile games have over the years taken what Nintendo has experimented with and elaborated on them, true innovation is not really seen in mobile gaming. When Apple makes a device, they might think "what do we *have* to do to make mobile gaming possible?" When Nintendo makes a device, they'll think "what *can* we do to improve portable gaming?"

It's also worth noting that a lot of titles on DSiWare, etc. are really a lot of fun. I guess one might consider those games to be similar to mobile games. Three such games are "Pro-Jumper! Guilty Gear Tangent!?," "Magical Whip," and "Ninja Karakuri Den." I'd say "Shantae: Risky's Revenge" is more like a retail game, just released on DSiWare.

And ShirowWolf, that survey is kinda seeing the world with shit-colored glasses. 13% keep the 3D effects off at all times on the 3DS? 13% is not a large percentage. 28% of 3DS players don't like the 3D all that much? Also not a large percentage considering it's an optional effect. Besides that, long-time gamers take a while to adjust to playing in 3D. So many of those who had bought the 3DS since its price drop might not have adjusted to it yet. And yes, if you have played nothing but 2D games your entire life, it does take time to adjust to seeing depth in your games.

Really, the 3DS is off to a great start. No, it's not off to a Wii-level start, but I'd prefer a DS-level start that to petering out slowly like the Wii did. Yeah, that's right, the DS had a "bad" launch too. Although personally I wouldn't call either launch bad, it's just how handhelds in general launch. Even when the GBA came out, there were no shortages on the system's launch day or anything. Really, all told the 3DS has had a fairly strong launch - I believe it's already outsold the DS' launch year, and the shopping season hasn't even started (and Mario just came out). Nintendo didn't launch with killer first-party games because it needed to give third parties breathing room; every company is afraid of competing with Nintendo games. Nintendo could have shipped with a free Mario game, but that price would either be passed on to the consumer, or even if it didn't, consumers would have *felt* that it was and investors would have been disappointed that hte game wasn't released stand-alone. Nintendo also has reacted very well and responsibly to the market.

I doubt I can add anything to this week's topic, so all I can tell you guys to do is enjoy!

Well, about your question Commodore. I think Sony Ericsson is already pioneering that department with their model Xperia Play. You see, they combined mobile phone features and added Playstation Portable on it, which is really a great feature, since playing, forgive me for this, on an emulator with the modern day phone is really a pain. I have a great feeling that first party game/console developers with the cellphone companies/manufacturers will combine their minds together and develop phones that can run games like what we have on the DS and PSP, and had the same capabilities even further of the respective handheld consoles.

Imagine playing games like Ocarina of Time 3D, or La Pucelle on mobile phones, it will be like hitting two birds with one stone. These are my two cents on your wringer, so I hope my thoughts make sense.

I love this discussion because i felt the DS and the PSP were the best systems of last gen by a mile (the 360, PS3, and Wii are all pretty "meh" systems to me).

With that said, the days of nintendo domination (and lets not forget, the psp was a huge financial success too for sony) are ending. The vita will be successful this upcoming new era due to them marketing toward the more "hardcore" gaming market.

The 3DS will still be moderately successful, but it won't be near the level of the DS's sales (about 150 mill). In the new era, consolidation is key. Cell phones can do so much more now, and the causal market will use their phones because they already have their smartphone, and the games on it are under $10 usually.

Look at last gen, specifically, the DS. The highest selling games are pokemons, brain ages, nintendogs, and mario titles. Aside from pokemon titles that are a bit more complex with programming, those games are pretty basic (no offense to mario games that i love). Mobile phones can handle them. Angry Birds and Farmville are the new nintendogs and brain age games. And while nintendo might not license mario to mobile phones, similar platformers could pick up in popularity.

The reason why i think sony and the vita won't be hit as hard is because the vita is focusing moreso on games that the mobile phones aren't really making due to their still limited technology. A game like uncharted or ffx (two supposed launch titles for the vita) arent coming to mobile phones anytime soon. Although i should note that many final fantasies are already on the iphone.

To summarize my kinda long post:  I think both the 3DS and the Vita will not see sales numbers like the DS and PSP. Both will be hurt by smart phones and gaming aps. The 3DS will be hurt more because nintnedo had a bit more of a casual gamer market imo. AKA the market that will flock/has flocked to mobile phones due to convenience and being cheaper. But to be honest, its more competition for consumers....and additional competition is almost always a good thing for the consumer.

I think the survey I mentioned is probably fairly accurate, actually. The general feeling I get is that most people still just don't care that much about the 3DS's 3D, or 3D in general. That doesn't mean 'no one cares at all,' but people aren't going ape-shit with enthusiasm over it, for sure. It hasn't become the phenomenon that evidently some people still believe that it is. 13% might not be 'a large number,' but I think it's at least a little significant if that many people never turn the 3D on. :P If it was 5%, that would be another thing.

I personally don't think it's a matter of people needing to 'adjust' to 3D; I think a lot of people honest and truly just don't care about it that much. I've mentioned this in other threads, too; people like James Cameron and Nintendo are really trying to paint 3D as the next greatest thing ever, and perhaps even trying to force it on people. It's not working; most people seem to just not care about it that much. :P I actually doubt that most people are buying the 3DS for the 3D that much. I'd venture a guess that well, it's mainly because it's Nintendo's current step in their handhelds, and they intend to release more and more for it. Apart from 3D, the 3DS also does things the DS doesn't do, such as the Virtual Console, and it can still play old DS games, too.

...I guess that's not really the point in here though! :P

First I want to say thank you for the warm welcome. I really appreciate it!

Now to your question. But first there's one thing that I want to make clear: I really don't understand why the gaming market for smartphones is growing so fast. I own a smartphone since 2009 and I also own a DS since 2010. As you can see I bought the DS after I bought my smartphone. I really tried playing games on my smartphone but I just don't get along with it. I mean, there are many damn good games out there for all smartphones (like Zenonia for example) but the the one thing that ruins it for me are the controls. I need real buttons if I want to sit down a play a good game. And I don't want to cover half of the screen with my damn thumbs. That doesn't work for me. Playing a small little game is okay (well if you're sitting on the toilet or whatever ) but playing a fast jump 'n' run or RPG game...no thanks. Just thinking about playing Zelda or even Mario with that kind of control makes me sick.  That's the reason why I bought the DS.

But anyway, that wasn't your question. Playing the fortune-teller is a little bit difficult with such fast changing markets. But I'm quite sure that at least Nintendo has to change something if they still want to be competitive. Sony is doing enough with their Xperia Play, I guess. It's at least a good start. They just have to be sure not to end like Nokia with their N-Gage. But maybe Nokia was ahead of its time back then.  The new Vita is okay, but it's nothing but a major "facelift" of the PSP. They got rid of their UMD crap and upgraded some of the hardware. That's it. With that, I think Sony will be fine. Their first attempt in the mobile gaming market was the PSP back in 2004. I don't think Sony will vanish if the mobile gaming sector fails.

Nintendo is the one that will be getting bigger problems if they aren't going to change some basic things. They ruled the mobile gaming sector...but now their market share is getting smaller and smaller. The DS was a really good approach and Nintento got back in business. Now with the smartphones in their back it's going to be much tougher.

One thing for sure: The 3DS is definitely no game changer. Just adding 3D to the DS won't to the trick. The number of units sold are a disaster. And Nintendo is now again in the red (I guess the first time since the Gamecube-era). 

Let's go through some possibilites.

Nintendo could start making games for smartphones. I have to admit, it's a strange idea to play Super Mario or any other Nintendo game on a smartphone. But why not? Nintendo has a large fanbase (especially from the NES and SNES-era). Just look at the Virtual Console for the Wii. It's doing great. So why not porting some old school games to the smartphone? With good controls of course...if that's even possible. I know you could use the Big-E...but you know. It's not the same. They could even start programming new games for the smartphone. The power is here. The nVidia Tegra is a good example. You can produce amazing stuff with that. The downside of this possibility would be that they would neglect their 3DS and every upcoming mobile gaming device.  But I don't think that Nintendo will ever do this. They're just too stubborn to let their mascots running around on non-nintendo devices. It just happened once with the CD-I and we all know how that ended. 

Another possibility: Nintendo should find a completely new approach like they did with the Wii. It's really hard to find such niche market, but it could be worth it. 

The last possibility: Maybe a Xperia Play-kind of thing? It's really, really hard to imagine Nintendo making smartphones. In fact, I don't think that they could pull this one off...at least not alone. This means a collaboration  between Nintendo and a smartphone manufacturer. Maybe HTC or even Samsung? Whatever. But Nintendo doesn't really have a nice history working with other companies...Sony? Phillips? Didn't work too well.

I'm quite sure there will be some drastic movement in the mobile gaming market in the next 2-3, maybe 4 years. We have to see if Nintendo can really save themselves with some new ideas (and not the 3DS) and if Sony's Xperia Play is doing that great. Or their Vita. Who knows? But if Nintendo wants to stand a chance, they have to do somthing. Or they'll go down...

That's all. 

Greetings

I have a 3ds, I bought it after the price drop, I think the biggest mistake they made was the name. The console is not simply a 3d ds, it has graphical capabilities in the gamecube range, splinter cell and star fox are beautiful on it. But people think it just added 3d, when it is a whole new system, even in 2d, the system is impressive.

It's tough to say, but if I had to predict, Sony will go all out morphing their handhelds into whatever the current trends are, so essentially an iPhone but with Sony's name slapped on it and probably whatever features of Nintendo's current handheld that caught on.

Nintendo, however, will either refuse to change and just keep pumping out the franchises that sell (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon), or they'll finally adapt and realize that they need to offer cheaper games a la iPhone and Droid apps. My vote is that the former will be true.

I think someone had already mentioned it before, but I do believe that some people consider handheld and mobile gaming as two separate types of non-console gaming, a la jRPGs and western RPGs: same genre, differently executed.

I, for one, consider handeld gaming as systems like the DS, 3DS, PSP, Vita, etc. which are usually dedicated on-the-go gaming, which, in Nintendo's case, does focus solely on gaming, and this is evident in that you can't play any sort of music or video on your system (I THINK the 3DS has Netflix. Even though I own one, I don't care much for the service). Sony, I believe, is branching out towards the multimedia arena, as with the PSP, you can watch movies, listen to music and whatnot.

Mobile gaming, on the other hand, is what I consider smartphones to be. Smartphones are just predominantly phones that are capable of performing other tasks, like music, video, and, of course, gaming. The Android and iPhone are perfect examples of this. On my iPhone, most of the games I play on it are ports of big name games. The first 3 Final Fantasys are on there, as well as Tactics: WotL and Secret of Mana, and they don't cost much at all ($9-$16 isn't bad for a DS/PSP game on your phone).

As for the future, I do believe Sony will pump out a PS Vita-esque phone after the Vita is about to die, and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft entered the fray as well with some Xbox phone dealio. I don't think that Nintendo is going to step into the mobile phone gaming, as they've said before that they wouldn't make a game for the iPhone App Store. Sadly the only things keeping Nintendo's portables afloat are its exclusives: Mario, Zelda, etc.

Speaking of which: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/12/3ds-to-beat-out-original-ds-first-year-sales-land-killing-blow/

It seems the 3DS sales aren't that bad, are they? So why are they still making no profit? I'm confused.

So, if the 3DS is going strong just like the DS, where is the smartphone influence? The DS came out in 2004, where the smartphone business was really small. And now the 3DS could do even better? So what is going on here? Is this just a press message to calm the shareholders?

But if this is true, then maybe Nintendo isn't doing that bad after all...but I'm still not convinced about Nintendo's strategy.

P.S.: Funny, just one day after the Weekly Wringer, news are popping out talking about that topic.

@ferrior

i agree that there is a huge difference in technology, style, and presentation between the handhelds and the mobile phones. But in terms of fanbases, im not so sure.

The handhelds will have a leg up on the people who specifically want deeper, more complex games (for now at least). Imo you can only do so much with a touch screen like the iphone. But there are tons of people who bought the DS for something to do on the go that their mobile phone can do now. They are already paying for their cell phone, and now that the cell phone can play quick to learn/set the high score games like angry birds, it "quenches their thirst" for something to game on the go with. Saves them the ~$150 on the system and games turn from $30 new to $5

As it has been said many times a lot of people see a difference between mobile and handheld games. Mobile games are games to play for a short time, handheld games are games to play for a long trip (I always buy a handheld game before a flight anywhere)

I think most of us realize this. Yes, Nintendo and Sony are losing sales to mobile gaming. Nintendo is losing their casual market interested in Brain games, Nintendogs, and Cooking mama, while Sony is losing their teenagers who would rather have a phone to carry around than a PSP.

As we've seen with the Xperia Play Sony wants to branch out into the phone industry, probably slowly killing off thier normal handheld systems with the PSV possibly being the last and just having phones from Sony. Then Xperia Play.. didn't do anything. Hell before I read this stuff I didn't know it had been released! Apperantly it is selling well, but either Sony's keeping quiet or even Sony stopped caring about games on the phone. This probably will lead them to take more care into portables making the PSP and PSV the first in a line of handheld games. As Aestolia said they will make a handheld video game system with the ability to talk on the phone or text, rather than a phone that plays games (And yes, it does make perfect sence, Aestolia).

Nintendo dosen't have what it would take to do well with a phone. When people think Nintendo they think little kids. So at best they'll just end up getting kids 10 and under to use phones and then when they get older they'll be wanting an iPhone or whatever smartphone is big at the time like one of the cool kids. They realize this and won't even try. They will stick with making handhelds like they always have, apperantly trying to add tiny details to it as they can. Although honestly at this point the best a handheld could be is a double screened, 3d, 2 analog stick, 4 face buttons, 4 (if) shoulder buttons, and with increasing graphics. Nintendo is probably just one step away from the ultimate handheld system, and then what? They can just increase graphics or tiny things like that. The best they'll be able to do after that is to make more models so on and so on, but that is where Nintendo will screw up. As Lenois said Nintendo is shit with their names. With the Gameboy they were upgrading graphics so you could tell if it is a Gameboy, a Gameboy Color, or a Gameboy Advance. Then with the Gameboy Advance SP and Gameboy Advance Micro they made it clear they were just releasing updates. With all the ads for a GBA saying "For Gameboy Advance!". Then we got the Nintendo DS. Then the Nintendo DS lite, and the Nintendo DSi, Nintendo DSiXL (There might have even been a Nintendo DSi lite IIRC, but I'm not too sure and you get my point). As time went on their ads were saying Nintendo DSi as I remember. People eventually figured it was just an upgrade. Then came the Nintendo 3DS. That makes it sound like another upgrade not a whole new system to me. And apperantly it wasn't marketed well enough and people didn't know about the 3D with no glasses? That is a huge fail on Nintendo's part. They're showing this even more with the Nintendo WiiU. Sounds like just a Wii upgrade. (This might have also been a slight problem with NES to SNES, but I don't know how that shit went down.) If Nintendo is going to just be making slight upgrades to whatever the Nintendo Super Handheld is they'll need to change the name so people will buy it and play the games exclusive to the newest version.

I do feel handheld gaming is coming to an end, but then again people have been saying the same about Home consoles too. I think home consoles will have to upgrade to the point of photo realism in the next 10-20 years to keep people interested in upgrading graphics. Handhelds won't be getting much better than they are now, with a possibility of 5 years longer to wait than the home consoles are. By that I mean 15-25 years after the Home consoles are photo real will handhelds become photo real. Yes, I do believe this comes down to graphics. I don't think there is much to improve on the gameplay side of things besides AI or game memory, but most games have that stuff down. Consoles and Handhelds will have a huge halting period, and in this halt Consoles will be as good as any video game stuff had been (I expect PCs and Consoles to become exactly the same very shortly with consoles always having a 5 year delay because with PCs you just install new shit, with consoles you have to wait for the developers to decide to release a new console), and handhelds will remain as graphically appealing as a console today. This will cause many to lose interest and ignore it all together making it seem as though Handhelds are losing sales to mobile games, when really they would lose these sales regardless. This may make mobile games more profitable, I don't know. Of course I could be wrong on so many things, I have no real backup to my theory, but I do expect handhelds to slow down greatly, especially for Nintendo. Sony might be able to push into mobile gaming if they're smart enough to make it work.

Just want to start out by saying that I've always considered the GameBoys and PSPs to be handheld gaming while mobile gaming is what you do with your phone or tablet. I also believe that the relationship between the two is that they don't effect each other DIRECTLY. While in some ways they do seem to compete with each other in recent years, I feel that they are, at this point and time, still seperate from each other. 

If you disagree with that, fine. Be that way. You're entitled to your own opinion, even when it's wrong, but think about this for a minute. The chart/figures mentioned are more than likely percentages because those are much easier to compare to each other than using solid numbers. The problem with percentages, in this case, is that they do not represent how the number of people that fit into this particular statistic has grown. As anybody who has played Angry Birds will attest, smartphones and tablets are a breeding ground for casual games. While a number of gamers, myself included, do play these casual games, I find it hard to believe that a person who strictly plays casual games would be considered a gamer. So what are the chances that every, or even most, smartphones are owned by gamers? And the ones that are owned by gamers probably are put secondary to the handheld as far as games are concerned. You could also look at it like the smartphone is flooding the non-console/pc market similarly to how the iPod affected the MP3 download market. It's not that the smartphones are taking over the handhelds in the gaming world, it's that it is a new avenue of approach for both gamers and non-gamers to play games on the go, and I think that is what the charts are actually showing, even if they don't realize it.

All that said, I don't think the handheld will be around forever. While I'm not ready to say that handhelds will be gone and completely replaced by mobile devices within the next 10 years, I do think that it could easily happen within the next 20. I say this simply because of the way phones and tablets continue to evolve and new control methods are being developed. Sony has seen these signs as well. Remember the Playstation Phone that was talked about around the same time as the PSP Vita was being announced. I haven't heard anything recently but think it's safe to say it's sitting on a back burner at Sony. This is what I think will become of the handheld, becoming merged with the phone rather than taken over by it. There will be a Playstation phone and a Nintendo phone, both optimized for gaming on top of the various other abilities of both the handhelds and mobiles of todays market. I'm just not sure when it will happen.

Remember the Playstation Phone that was talked about around the same time as the PSP Vita was being announced.

Sony's Ericsson divison vetoed the idea. They didn't want a video game in their phone.

Not too smart, considering the torrent of apps out there. A video game phone could have really leveled the playing field.

@chaindog_2003

Ive said this a few times now, but I don't think they are entirely separate from each other. Yes, there is a large amount of people who wouldn't bother with the nintendo/sony systems if their phones didn't game games. There certainly is a "smartphone/tablet or nothing crowd". But there are tons of youth who would of been interested in the 3DS or Vita that now will be satisfied with their mobile phone aps. Like I said, Angry Birds and Farmville are the new Nintendogs and Brain Age.

According to vgchartz (ill admit they aren't completely accurate, but they aren't terrible) nintendogs for the DS sold about 700,000 copies in the USA for its first 10 weeks. The highest selling 3DS game (nintendogs + cats) sold about 500,000 copies in the WORLD its first 10 weeks. Now ill admit the 3DS has had horrible timing in japan (japan earthquake) and a bad starting price, but one has to think mobile gaming is causing some of the lackluster numbers, at least in the USA.

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/1657/nintendogs/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/45682/nintendogs-cats/

What we are seeing is a lot of the casual market leave the handheld systems. Perhaps this is good for us "hardcore" gamers who never touch games like nintendogs and farmville, but it is causing smaller sales overall.

Technology grows and changes in an exponential way, not linearly. 10 years ago the ipod was brand new, and now the ipod is becoming known as the orange button in the bottom right corners of iphones

Ok... I just have to say this:

All handheld consoles are mobile gaming , but not all mobile gaming are handhelds. They are very much part of the same beast, and to say that one doesn't directly affect the other is kind of silly. Espcially now that tablets are growing in popularity. It's only a matter of time before someone puts big E on a tablet, then tell me they aren't the same.

Hi Comadore!

I SINCERLY hope you won't take this as any kind of insult what-so-ever but I wish you would cap these videos off at about 15-20 minutes. Don't get me wrong; you're an intelligent and personalbe individual and I like to hear what you have to say and to hear you respond to the community but sometimes it's hard to break away from what I'm doing for long periods of time to watch the whole of the ringer. It seems like, at times, it's kind of sluggish and a little too bloviated for it's own good.

Again, I'm trying to be as constructive as possible with the criticism and I hope it's understood that I love the WR and I love COTGW. I'm just giving my 2 cents. I'll continue to watch and (at some point later on) contribute when I get the time.

Thanks alot!

djb, I think he asked most of the community before and the majority said that he should talk about as much as he liked.

That's fair enough then.

I want to say a couple of things regarding this subject. 

First of all; is it really that fair to say Sony and Nintendo are inte the mobile gaming business? To compare the mobile, small, $1 games with the long adventures á la Zelda or Mario? I think mobile gaming and handheld gaming are two completely different areas. I don't think anyone makes the active choice between an iPhone or a 3DS for gaming. I don't think more than half of the people playing angry birds would've bought a 3DS or Vita if they couldn't play with their phones. Sure there are many lengthy, handheld-worthy games on the iPhone as well, such as the Final fantasy ports, and several other long and well made games. But the smaller games outnumber the really high quality ones.

Going back to the subject a bit more, I think many people aren't aware that the small amounts of money they spend on small games, actually builds up to a lot of money in the end. I know this from personal experience, "Hey, it's only $1, I can buy that... and that.... and these... and these as well". All of a sudden you've spent $50 on basically flash-quality games. This is part of why they got so much money in all these charts, that people are unaware of how much they spend. 

This brings me to my next thoughts, Nintendo and Sony overprice their downloadable games! For example: Zenonia is much cheaper on iPhone, than it is on the DSi (3DS), or atleast it was when I bought it. However, I'd rather play it on a handheld console just for the controls, because the touch screen controlls are truly horrible, rendering Zenonia unplayable for me. However, I'm still hesistant of buying the game for the 3DS just because of the high price, because it is a download! A digital file! When I pay a lot of money, I'd like to have something to put in my bookshelf as a proof that I have it, which I can use over and over again, and not some digital file which will dissapear somewhere into thin air once my phone or console breaks (more or less). The same goes for the PSP's downloadable games, and I'm not talking about the "mini's" series which actually has a great price point! But the "real" PSP games, they cost WAY more to download digitally than to buy new in box. And as I just said, I'd rather have a box on a shelf displaying my little collection of games. A download should be a cheaper option, for those disposable games, play it once then throw it away... 

So to sum it up:
If we should even compare Sony and Nintendo with Apple and Android, I'd only compare them regarding the downloadable games, not the retail games for the handhelds, compared with the downloadable games for the phones. And if Sony and Nintendo wants to be part of the race then, they have to lower their prices a lot, offering more games, smaller games, independent games. Only offering some 30 games doesn't help, Nintendo! 

Yeah... This became way longer than I had in mind, but maybe a worthy first Wringer post? :)